So you made a great podcast. What now?
A podcast distribution guide for independent producers
by Karolis Vysniauskas. December ‘22
Produced at NYU Studio 20
Coda journalists Isobel Cockerell and Becky Lipscombe interviewing Uyghur activist Memettursun Omer for the Undercurrents podcast in Norway. Picture by Frankie Mills
“Good journalism won’t be enough”
Making a podcast is the fun part. Making sure that it reaches listeners is a tough one – but essential. After all, what is this all work for if people won’t hear it?
In the fall of 2022, I was working with Coda Story for the launch of their podcast docu-series Undercurrents, co-produced with Audible (launching in January 2023). And since 2017, I’ve been co-developing NARA, the pioneering podcast in Lithuania. I juggled different roles, from hosting to producing and launching the membership platform. NARA won the Best podcast in Lithuania award in 2019. Today it counts more than 1 million downloads.
In this article I am sharing what I have learned about podcast distribution throughout my experience in the US and Lithuania. I wrote it as a list of informed personal recommendations.
#1 Change your mindset
‘Great product will sell itself’ is a lie. The thinking I have embraced is ‘Work just as hard to distribute as you did to create.’
I know that it’s not what we were learning in a traditional journalism school. The process of distribution is more comparable to marketing than to reporting. It brings journalists closer to salespeople, and we don’t like that.
And yet, there is no escaping this task. As I am writing this article, there are 450,000+ active podcasts in the world. You need to put in extra work to stand out.
#2 Focus on the “why”
It is essential to have a clear description of your podcast. But focusing on why people should listen to it is as important. As Julie Whitaker, digital manager from This American Life, said to me:
“When pitching your show to listeners, focus on why people should listen to it. Not as much as what the show is about. You think the show is a must-listen. But you should find a way to formulate – why is it so?”
Undercurrents is a podcast investigating governments using tech against their people. Why should people listen to it? These are the answers I gave to the Coda team:
Because it’s a uniquely ambitious project – you hear reporting from China, Afghanistan, India, Thailand, Russia, Belarus, the US, and France;
Because it shows a trend of government surveillance which, if not addressed, will come to your door as well;
Because it’s fact-checked and well-produced;
Because…. (the list goes on).
The “Why” of podcasting is important not just for the listeners. We, the journalists, also have to remember why we are doing this work. When you formulate a clear answer to yourself, it is easier to tell it to your listeners.
Undercurrents podcast focuses on governments using tech against their people. It’s an essential listen – but a challenging one to promote.
#3 Have a list of 100 people you must reach
You are not producing for everyone. You are constrained by the topic, language, geography.
For Undercurrents, I started compiling a list of 100 people who should be aware of our podcast. I did that hoping that they will find the podcast valuable and spread the word.
Let’s take an episode on Uyghurs in Norway fleeing China’s government persecution. There are individuals and organizations who care about the Uyghurs cause. They should be in our list of 100 people.
But how do we find them? A helpful tool is Ninja Outreach. You type a keyword, and the system finds people on Instagram and Youtube with the biggest reach in your topic. Through Ninja, I discovered Uyghur Project and their influential Instagram page.
Here is another example of informing the right people. In the episode from Thailand, one of the interviewees is Pavin Chachavalpongpun, an associate professor with more than 430,000 Twitter followers. It’s vital to inform him that the episode is out. There is a high chance that he will want to share it with his followers.
The decision whether to share the episode or not is, of course, in the hands of your interviewee. You cannot demand anyone to share your work. But your task is to let people know that the project they participated in is out in the world.
#4 Use visuals – even if we are in the world of audio
At the NARA team, we are lucky to have great photographers. We used their work to attract attention to our interview guests on social media.
Following this example, one of the first things I asked Coda team when I started working with them, was the photos from the behind-the-scenes of their reporting. It’s one thing to say to your listeners that your reporters went to Norway to talk with Uyghur refugees. It’s a different thing to see interviews being recorded with piles of snow in the background.
Many podcast creators are giving their listeners extra visual material. A good example is I Was Never There podcast, a true crime story. They used their Instagram page for archival photos.
There’s a different route as well. As Whitney Dangerfield, an art director for Serial podcast’s website told me, their team’s goal was to use visuals to create a certain atmosphere around the podcast, rather than using direct pictures from the reporting. Their goal was to set the mood, but leave room for imagination.
One thing is clear: your podcast should have a visual identity.
The most downloaded NARA podcast episode from 2021 was the story of Haris Urbartas, a trans man from a small town in Lithuania. The crucial part of the story was a photo series that our photographer Severina Venckute did. We ran them together with an audio interview.
#5 Seek industry recognition
Just like music reviewing or film reviewing, podcast reviewing is establishing itself as an occupation for culture critics. Vulture’s critic Nicholas Quah is a leading voice in the movement, just like Fiona Sturges at FT. In 2020, The New Yorker started their “Podcast dept”. There are indie websites like podcastreview.org. Pitch your show to these places.
Also, there are journalism competitions and awards to which you should submit your work to. A big push for NARA this year was a nomination for the European Journalism Prize.
Another way to set your foot in the industry – submit yourself to conferences. It helped the NARA show when the organizers of Login, the biggest tech conference in the Baltics, invited me to give a talk about podcast growth in Lithuania.
The true goal of your podcast is to reach listeners who care about your reporting. But the more recognized you are in the industry, the bigger chance that listeners will discover your work.
#6 Inform your superfans first
Of course you want to gain new listeners with your new show. But the first step is to reach those listeners who are already in your circle. Your newsletter subscribers, your members, your followers on social media (on both personal and organizational pages) – make sure that your podcast reaches them. They are already connected with you. Engage them. Prioritize them. There’s a high chance they will be curious to hear your new work.
A moment from the first NARA Live event in 2018. The listeners invited to the event were NARA podcast Patreon members who we reached through a Facebook group and newsletter. Establishing deeper connections with our existing listeners was a crucial part of the podcast’s success. Photography by Mindaugas Drigotas.
#7 Engage online communities
Checking Coda’s analytics, I was surprised to learn that one article about COVID-19 was doing much better than the others. Turns out, it was shared on Reddit and was wildly discussed there. For the NARA article about teenage depression in Lithuanian high schools, we received hundreds of views after we shared it on a Facebook group of Lithuanian teachers.
Online communities can be powerful spaces to reach new listeners who specifically care about the topic of your reporting.
But it is important to follow a couple of rules before entering these spaces. The most important one is to post only if you are sure that your post will give value to the community. Otherwise it will be seen as spam. The other rule is to be transparent. If you made this podcast, be open about that fact. Be ready to engage in discussion if people are reacting. Through this process, you will gain trust and, potentially, new listeners.
#8 Learn from the book industry
Thinking about a podcast launch as a book launch was helpful advice I was given by Kevin Broderick, the vice president of The Lippin Group, who worked on launching S-Town podcast. You need to make sure you find good quotes for your press release. You make sure that the host (just like the book author) gets interviewed on other media channels. You try to get reviews from influential listeners.
Podcasts and books are similar – they are tools for people to learn and entertain themselves when being on their own. It’s a solitary yet fulfilling experience. And readers tend to recommend their books to other readers (there’s a phenomenon on TikTok called BookTok). What works for book readers can work for podcast listeners. There’s a high chance that it is the same group of people.
#9 Pay your team extra
It’s expected that journalists will promote their work through all their channels without extra pay. That is an exploitative mindset. Maintaining your social media presence is work, sharing links to your work is… work. And like every work, it should be compensated. Reporters and producers should be a part of the distribution process but they should get paid for this task.
They also should have the option to opt out. But that means that someone else should do the promotional job for them. Not caring about the promotion of your work in today’s journalism is a privilege.
This guide is part of my final project for New York University’s journalism graduate program Studio 20, focused on media innovation.
Thank you to my classmates Thu K. Dao and Carla Nudel for reviewing.
This guide is a work-in-progress initiative, just like many things in the growing podcast industry. Let’s update it together. Reach me at karolis.vysniauskas@gmail.com.
For a more general approach to podcast marketing, I recommend the work of Castos.